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 Ulathtallar

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ReapermanAUS

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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:40 pm

Fillipo Im sry nothing we does pleases you I hope you find where ever you go play to be exactly what you want (but unfortunatly this is a multiplayer Game and the only way you will get this is to play with yourself so Im not confident you will ever be happy.) If you do stay on the server I hope you will try and Understand that if you had been here like the rest of us for the year of constant crasha, harrasment by the previous Dm team and no updates or events for the UD you may acrually be able to comment on how things are done , but since you did leave for 8 months means you were around for the start of it and came back when it was fixed. Some only gave up waiting for things to get fixed a couple of months ago and are just now finding out things are so much better, should we penalize these players who have been playing here for over 2 years for the previous staff driviing them all off with Indifferance and Harrasment and while penalizing them reward those who have only been around lately since things got good, I dont think so but since you are so very negative you im sure do ,just dont try all this crap in the Sorcere section since the moderater there doesnt like it when you call him and his friends liars and has decided you wont get away with this constant picking at everything he does there. (yeah im the moderator)


And Lars theres nothing to stop Zorne tryiing to Rp herself into the position now Talice did get it almost 2 years ago and although may not have been active that much during the Year of Crashes (was trying but only mad men like a few of us stuck it out all the way through ,yeah I know I was mostly gone for a couple of Months after I was Harrased by some dms and helping play test Mr O's server) but then It was just crap to play when as soon as you started rping the server would crash and then some wouldnt come back and you would try again and 10 minutes later it would crash again what we will see now is with a stable server more rping will get done and those that want to come back will and if they dont take too long the may get there positions back. (where are ya Amith)
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Valas



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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:11 pm

ReapermanAUS wrote:


And Lars theres nothing to stop Zorne tryiing to Rp herself into the position now Talice did get it almost 2 years ago and although may not have been active that much during the Year of Crashes (was trying but only mad men like a few of us stuck it out all the way through ,yeah I know I was mostly gone for a couple of Months after I was Harrased by some dms and helping play test Mr O's server) but then It was just crap to play when as soon as you started rping the server would crash and then some wouldnt come back and you would try again and 10 minutes later it would crash again what we will see now is with a stable server more rping will get done and those that want to come back will and if they dont take too long the may get there positions back. (where are ya Amith)

(have to praise myself that i played valas in the whole server crash time =) )

You're absolutely right that talice has earned and its ok that she good her position back... that you were forced to insert an ilharess 1 week before deathshard came back is just INSANELY UNLUCKY!

still my point is that we should work some things out to avoid this troubl ein the future.. our quellar has lost Zorne as active character in the process :/


i already suggested some ways to do it better next time.. and i just got an idea about the matron position in general:

if the matron quits playing the game for a time without telling the others of the quellar a reason or if he/she will be back,

the quellar will be without ilharess (which is reallybad and a weakness in rp), so we could say after 6weeks of unreasoned inactivity (telling us that you have to leave for a while and will be back late ris always ok and we could work a way out to deal with it) we will be able to etablish a acting ilharess..

then for the next 6 weeks (just an ieda) if the old ilharess comes back she should be given an easy way to challeng ethe new ilharess and claim her sposition back with advantages..

after that time the old ilharess should have to work her way back as others have to claim ilharess title now...

i repeat myself: thats just my idea if the matron leaves the game without telling the others anything.. else we can alway wotk something out




gnaah i am sory for my english
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ReapermanAUS

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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:01 pm

That sounds good,
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vald



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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:05 pm

valdina was the fist Uthataller in szith and would like the position back, (gave the position up when i became a dm) She is a LVL 30 Priestess of lolth with darkness and evil domains.
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ReapermanAUS

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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:49 pm

Well Vilm was back today too Vald so you better get in game and start rping Yathing I guess.

Although Id perfer to se Vald around than that bitch Valdina affraid
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Death Shard

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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:11 am

met with vilmiethian today but one day each wouldnt count would it? lol =P
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Vilmiathien
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:53 am

Views on the Ulathtallar position:

1. Player views

a. The position pertains to a character who is the very voice of Lolth. I ran into many problems rping this with limited or no DM help. Everything from classes to orders and decrees seemed cheesed and wrong to me as I did it, why?
Because a player can not back up the position, and Deities such as Lolth are DM run

b. Classes can be difficult do to lack of Yath players. It always boggled my mind the amount of female players we have had in the past, that did not play Yath.

c. No player truly has the time to play the Ulathtallar properly. Even if you play her from the moment you wake up to the moment you sleep, there will always be times when you are not around, and in reality, who can do that anyway.

2. DM Views (when I took up being Songspider, Instead of giving up the Ulathtallar position, I utilized it)

a. DM run Ulathtallar, is run by the team, that means multiple people can play her, which if done right by the team, will give her a lot more play.

b. Running VIl as an NPC helped me in furthering my DM plot A LOT!!! In fact I would not have been able to run it, with out her as an NPC.

c. A DM can better simulate the power of the voice of Lolth. Those who were there have to admit it, but watching the Ulathtallar summon a real Yochol, was a lot cooler than emoting the demon is in the corner of the room and having a player rp an invisible NPC as well as there character.

d. DM controlled Ulathtallar enables the team to keep easier track of the city's Yath, The Yath are cut throat to themselves and everyone around them, if the team helps in keeping tabs on city Yath, it can be used to create more authentic drow plots and stimulate much better player based rp between Yath chars, and ultimately all drow players in Szith.

I will support any changes that are decided by the team and player base. Though I would like to see Vil assassinated before a new Ulathtallar takes the seat, DM or player. I will be happy to rp her death and retirement, it wold be worth it see it done right.

Shadow and Labella, we need to talk Smile
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ReapermanAUS

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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:46 pm

Well for me there would only be one way Id want to see a dm have that position and that would be if there was a specific DM who only played that position or Two for diff Time Zones that kept each other up to date on whats going on and both had a complete Understanding of how a Chaotic Evil deity with her portfolio and the Rules the Gods must follow by Ao decree.So no Lolth killikng other gods follower or even outing them as she enjoys the intrigue and testing her own followers. If A Dm does play as Lolth through the Uthataller we need another DM or 5 who then play the other Drow Gods to talk to their woshippers as well. This is where I unfortunatle need to go back to my orig opinion that the Uthataller should be player position or then every High cleric of a diety has to be a Dm. I agree Vilm that as just a player anything you say is filled with cheese but heres the way you get around the cheese, The Dm running the current plot makes an IC post that all Yath get whatever (orders/pemonitions) the Uthattaller gets But it the Uthatallers interpratation of the orders/pemonitions that matter (These order/pemonitions should be Vague open to diff interpretaions) This way all know they have some sort of thing to be working toward together while still giving the actual players the opurtunity to interprut the instructions in a diff way than others,

Im not sure Im explaining this right, but I know some of the most fun ive had in rp was when a player misiunderstood what the (dm/god wanted to be done) and went of on a completely diff tangent and the Dm was good enough at the job to run with the plot rather that try to correct the misinterpruted vision it had recieved, basically we as players dont like to be lead around by the nose and when a character such as Uthataler is controled by a dm there can be no misinterprutation of the plot cause you made it. The player should never be told by a dm what to do the dm should try to lead them where they want but if thats not the way it goes they should go with that too as this is what happens in the Realms Gods Scheme and Mortals play it out but no one is told exactly what the hell is going on and exactly what they should do.
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DM_SongSpider
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:18 pm

I hear what you are saying Reaper, I was just stating my experiences as I have played the Ulathtallar both ways, and the simple fact is it worked better when I had DM client at my disposal.

I do agree that it is much more interesting to see the rise and fall of a player as they try to interperet what is given to them. When I was using Vil as a PC, there was no DM attention at all, that seems like it will change. I still have yet to talk to the DMs on this.

I have to disagree about comparing the Ulathtallar to other high clerics though, Lolthite religion is nothing like other FR religions, you know this well. For example, how much DM attention does the HP of Torm need for example, he is just a powerful cleric, the Ulathtallar is something more.

One suggestion would be to re arrange the hiearchy so it works more like Menzo.

There is no Ulathtallar, instead the position is the Arch Mistress of Arach Tinilith, and her job is to train the Yath and head the accademy that is all. The Matrons rule the city, the matrons try to dominate one another through there own power and influence that they build up through stroy line. For example in Menzo, Quinthel, is Arch mistress of AT, but other priestess actually control a little more influence and favor than she does (per daughter of the drow) This would make the postion more workable to me in the context that you seem to be suggesting.


Last edited by SongSpider on Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ReapermanAUS

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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:36 pm

Finally thats just what im looking for Arch Jabress of Aracnatilith with 8 other Yathtaller as Jabress of Torture, Jabress of Lore (the real stuff no tthe crap fed to all drow by the Lore Master of Melee Magthree first 6 months) ect with that I would be Happy with Uthataller as Dm position as long as the will of Lolth is ambiguous and able to misinteruptaion going to all Yath and Uthataller only dragged out for formal occasions. Sacrifices of great import, High Holy days of Lolth, ceremonies for new Yathtallers. that sort of thing who likes this idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:55 pm

Then how about this we will work out Vil's assasination, and she will be replaced by a player who will run the accademy head. DM's will simply convey the will of the gods to priestesses individually. The player in charge of each accademy will keep tabs on all players of there coresponding class and make sure the DMs are aware of the current lists.

This will eliminate any reason for a DM need to run the seat and also help DMs keep control of the background noise
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ombra

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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:17 pm

I think that the main problem when Vilm was Ulathtallar as player was the lack of a DM behind her... that does make a difference but it doesn't mean that this position is better run by a DM. If Ulathtallar is better ran by a DM in order to better be able to be Lloth's envoy, to display Her powers and create that atmosphere of fearful reverence that is due... well that's just wrong because it can be done by the DM playing a Yochlol or Lloth herself. Lloth doesn't speak through the Ulathtallar, she speaks through Yochlols or through visions or in some rare cases even in person, and she doesn't do it just to the Ulathtallar, not at all, she does it with Matrons, High Priestesses and with whomever else she feels like she should. I think Shadow has been doing a good job on this till now and he certainly didn't speak through a none existant Ulathtallar.
The Ulathtallar is a spiritual leader which should hold classes, tend to the Temple affairs, and spread the word of Lloth by encouraging everyone to follow Her precepts. I don't think you need a DM client to do this.
I think, SongSpider, that you have the impression that you had more possibilities to do what you wanted with Vilm with the DM client and that's pretty obvious and it would apply to any other position, but the point is that if there is already a DM impersonating the voice of Lloth the Ulathtallar can be played regularly by a player... at least that's my impression.
I remind everyone that even if we're saying this position should be DM run and that currently it is this way, well... simply put it isn't DM run. There are no Valsharess or Ulathtallar in game because the DM plays a Yochlol. So my question is, if we already have a Yochlol being the voice of Lloth, why do we need a Ulathtallar covering the same role, while at the same time giving up its main role of spiritual guide and head of an academy which needs classes and which can't really be done by a DM who has to take care of ongoing plots and events ?
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:53 pm

Your falling into what me and reaper were begining to agree on. In the past Ulathtallar was treated as just what you are saying she should not be. What we are suggesting is that we strip the positon of these powers and leave it as it should be, as you suggest, a teacher and spiritual leader and nothing more. Lolth will be heard through DMs passing word to the priestess, all of them, not just the Ulathtallar.

So basicly, the three of us are in agreement here, we just need to proceed with the rp as is, and let things work themselves out.
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:51 am

Hello,

As some maybe already noticed I am one of the two UD DMs now.

Please remember when you discuss here with three players that many of the players voice their opinion in the game (per PMs to us DMs) and not in the forum, especially those that might not be as familiar with the language.

We will gather the opinions from players in the forum and in the game before further decisions are made. DM Shadow and I agreed on giving the position of the head of the Arach Tinilith back to a player in the future (through a contest or such, we will not say "here, this is your new head of the Arach Tinilith") as positions like those can grant great Player RP.

DM Cefar
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:56 pm

We are not really talking about, who will get or has the position so much, but more on how the position works and should be viewed.
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Raye'Kan Dev'Lin

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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:27 pm

I am against having a player character in the the role of Ulathtaller.
I am dead set against a player character member of house Dev'Lin becoming Ulathtaller.

Trying to set up the Yath like the sorciere (which has never had all of it's positions filled) seems like it would then face the same issues *shrug*

I think the house order should be eliminated, since all it ever causes is arguments, but I know that that is not going to happen until the loudest voices get what ever it is they think they should get, so I give up. And you wonder why there is no 'General Discussion' area on the Elben Aator forums.

So here goes, and hopefully I can manage to suggest this without being accused of Dev'Lin favoritism;

I say let the three Ilharessen each have ONE vote on all matters. If two agree, then that is what happens.

So if Morbb and Kor'ali agree that Kor'ali is now first house, Ta! Da! Kor'ali is first house

And if say Dev'Lin and Kor'ali agree that -insert pc name- is now Ulathtaller, then Ta! Da! Then that person is Ulathtaller!

And if two Ilharessen can not agree on a particular topic, such as how a school master gets into the position, then there is no school master

And should Morbb and Kor'ali agree that Dev'Lin should always be placed beneath Kor'ali in house order, then Ta! Da! Kor'ali need never worry about not having someone to look down at

And if Morbb and Kor'ali agree that Dev'Lin is a heretic house that should be destroyed! Then Ta! Da! The entire guild is now banished for Szith.

(I don't think the last two example will actually happen, but it does illustrate a point)

This way, the "Three Vote System" then requires the three ruling Houses to work together, wheel and deal through role play, while belaying the 'big government fears' of a DM Ulathtaller. Of course then the DM's will have to play Handmaidens/Yocclol and everyone will be free to ignore the Ulathtaller since she won't be able to back up anything she says unless a DM is right there to help her out, which could happen, hopefully. It could in a way, the required DM assistance could act as a stop/catch for potential power abuse, since in the case of Szith, the Ulathtaller would not be able to speak for Lolth on any matter until a DM logged in to tell her what Lolth wants, if anything.

The Three Vote System also has the potential to actually get some decisions made, being that getting three people to discuss something either in game of on the forums is a lot easier than eight or any other higher number.

ReapermanAUS wrote:
And you know as well as I do Vilm was Uthataller long before being a dm and played the position far too little after becoming dm to make it a viable choice but Im sure when theres a Dev'lin that want the position It will be revisited.

And at this point, I would like to offer to Reaperman the removal of all my characters from house Dev'Lin, that way I don't have to hear the implication of Dev'Lin favoritism ever again. Or maybe, just maybe, you might want to remember who I am and what I am like to role play and hang out with, and offer me an apology.
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Sorry dude I didnt mean for you to get caught in the Crossfire Wasnt really aiming at you but you did seem to be coming into every thread about Uthataller and Taliice and making announcments she was just iltharess again (one of the threads had absolutly nothing to do with Uthataller It was started by Hades when Talice was being made Yathtaller hence the read the thread comments before posting .)I really wouldnt Like you to get Rid of one character and I have no wish for there to be a Uthataller a house order or anything Gildren if you wanted you could be Archmage I really starting not to care to many get upset whenever I do anything or make suggestions so I think ill just stop it and leave it up to others to decide.

Edited slightly
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:28 pm

I personally favor the 3 vote system myself, there is still a hidden Il'haress thread
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:25 pm

Also, to clear the record, I used Vilm as an NPC once I became a DM. I stopped coming in period, as both player and DM, when the player base took a pounding and drow activity dropped really low. Underdark DM with no or maybe one or two UD players at a time, was just not worth it, no offense if anyone was that single UD player.

Raye, does have a point filling positions in the temple would prove next to impossible, I had a hard enough time pulling clerics together for classes, let alone temple rankings.

I think ranking should be arranged by individual houses, with the Archmissstress training all of the Yath and having the floor for major city events, like the one we had tonight. In other words, leading city rituals, ec.
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PostSubject: Re: Ulathtallar   Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:51 pm

i have to mouch to do at the moment with building and scripting to raly play much so valdina cant realy do much atm
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