Drow Meeting - sum up

Just so whoever had no chance to hop in at the 24.1. for the drow meeting (ooc meeting) with DM Shadow:

The Valsharess position and the Ulathtallar are DM only positions for now. This might change in the future.

If someone takes up a position in a house, and it would be ic knowledge for any drow in Szith (for example Ilharess, House Weaponmaster, Master of Sorciere etc) make a post here in the szith forums. It does not have to be long, and it can even be only "XY now is the new House Weaponmaster of the Morbb'dalharen"

If you wish to fill the ranks in your house, make an ooc post about the positions open. This does not mean that people will just placed inside of this position but shall give them an idea what positions are free. Of course even a 'filled' position can change by a nice assasination or a tournament (ooc consent about those please)

And a thumb up for Raye'Kan - the new Szith looks awesome and many useful items (like bag of holdings, molds, thief tools etc) will be buyable for all then.

Hope that covered everything for now
Labella

Handmaiden(DM) and Two Iltharess already made Talice the new Uthataller and since this position should only be played by someone who knows all there iis to Know about Lolthite ways and the lore of the Drow of Szith I think Talice was a Great choice since Vilm doesnt seem to be coming back or are you Vilm?

ReapermanAUS wrote:

Handmaiden(DM) and Two Iltharess already made Talice the new Uthataller and since this position should only be played by someone who knows all there iis to Know about Lolthite ways and the lore of the Drow of Szith I think Talice was a Great choice since Vilm doesnt seem to be coming back or are you Vilm?

zhe dm Hand Maiden (DM Shadow) was the one who led the meeting yesterday

he said he didnt approve that Talice was made Ulath#taller but only encouraged players to find a own solution.

as labella said the meeting then ruled that Ulath'taller and Valsharess are dm positions for now.



a lot of unlucky buisness ...

EDIT: ah yes it was also ruled that the leading positions in the academies (like melee) will be filled only after all House positions in all houses are filled.....

Well ok then this messes up my whole plan for the shard plot. and no way are the 40 something positions in our house ever going to be filled so having no Master of melle until all houses fill all position is just stupid and we have ruled ourselves pretty good for all this time. Im sure I dont like this having no say, next it will be archmage is a dm position, this is a player based game and I thought we played what we wanted to within reason Uthataler was always played by a player just because songspider became a Dm shouldnt mean the position is handed down to the next dm to come along


I know Talice hasnt been on much but she still had been logging in and going to the circle up to about a month and a half ago and the UD was all but empty and Talice has been on TFR for along time and knows the lore why say work it out yourselves and when we do you decide different .

as my first post was stating what was decided on that meeting i would like now to tell my opinion:

i think Vlahsraess Ulath'taller and Ul'saruk (master of melee) positions should be positions atainable by players right now... if they need the requirements and put rp into it obtaining that position (a little plot a event or for example of melee magthere a tournament of testts in some aspcts)

why? because we have lots of player in szith right now and with these position being open but reachable by players we give differtent players a goal to work for something and this will keep things llively.

Ok people cool down a moment. Summary of the past episodes:
until a couple of weeks ago, there was only one Ilharess in town that would connect a few times a week for a at best 1 hour, 2 houses without Ilharess, no Valsharess and no Ulathtallar. As we know there has been a new influx of characters in Szith (including surfacers, *grumbles*), old players that returned with new hopes, semi-active players that are getting more involved and are now fully active, and so on.
However I think it is wiser to proceed one step at a time, when Shadow said he would like all positions to be filled in houses before filling the academies ones he obviously meant the leading positions, not the Rothe position of House Kor'ali. So in summary that would be Ilharess, Yathrin or Yathtallar, qu'el'Saruk, Faeruk and Velguk; far from being 40 positions.

I would also like to suggest something that wasn't said at the meeting: these positions would be best held by different players. No player that holds the mani 5 positions of a House with 5 chars. This ensures that if a player quits, a house is not screwed up. Most importantly, if a Ilharess player quits, a Yath will take over temporarily at first and undefinitely later on.

One more about hurrying things. As most would know by now I personally was highly disappointed by how the new Ilharess of Kor'ali has been made, because I think that becoming Ilharess should be the result of ingame roleplay and that therefore such a character would have a story behind it that is built over roleplay; what we have now ingame is a Ilharess with a story written on paper and that's it. As much as I was in first line among those to be wishing for Ilharess soon for both korali and devlin, and for a new ulathtallar, I still think that things must take their natural course and most importantly be roleplayed. The House Matrons are the patrimony for the whole Szith because they can give orders to pretty much anyone and they form the Council of Szith. But one can say, hey, our House (guild), our decisions... (more or less). However making Arch Priestess in less than 2 hours a char. whos player came back after 1 year away, without the Council of Szith deliberating on the matter and without even defining this with the DM in charge of the UD (he didn't even know who is Talice), and especially after I had pointed out OOC that it had been stated by the staff that this position would be DM only for the moment and I was answered OOC that the DM had participated in arranging this; with all respect due to Death Shard whom I'm sure is a great RPer and knows the lore thoroughly... well this was going a bit too far in my humble opinion, and I wouldn't complain about your personal plans being screwed. There are more than just your plans going on right now.

Filippo

Talice was logging in still when there were not any drow in ud I think that accadamiy positions are for players as they always were the 2 times that a dm had the positions have been diisasters Vilm became dm and was rarely seen as uthtaller after that same went for The Melee Master who was a Dm bad Idea this .

Ok, it seems to get all confused now, lets try to keep it clear:

Nobody tries to remove Reapermanaus aka Vin'del Kor'ali from his head position in the Sorciere. This position is a player one and stays a player one.

Same for the head of the melee - there will be a tournament as far as i heard.


Now back to the Ulathtallar position:
If you go lore wise the Ulathtallar can have the power to overrule the leading houses, this is why it will be hold by the DMs for now. Further is it no position, which the Ilharessen vote on - the Ilharessen are the leaders of the noble houses, they are not necessarily in high positions in the Arach Tinilith. The Ulathtallar is "decided" by Lolth giving and taking favors.

Theoretically the Ilharess of the leading house can hold the Ulathtallar position at the same time sometimes BUT then the house would have to overpower all other houses by far, which is not the case in Szith

Because of the fact that the Ulathallar, as the leader of the priestesshood of Lolth, can overrule the Ilharessen and can declare that a certain Ilharess loses or gains favor in the eyes of Lolth, it is a DM position for now. This may change if the DMs find a dedicated drow player who is willing to spend a lot of time online in this position and proves to be ready for it.
( I am sure Talice Korali knows the drow lore very well, if she should decide to come back = meaning logging regulary - at least a few times a week - and for enough time that actually most drow player have seen her/rp-ed with her she might be a good candidate. So far it is unfortunately not the case)

The advantage of the Ulathtallar position being a DM position is also, that it can be used by more than one DM = different time zones may be covered.


Now to the Valsharess:
The Valsharess is the leader in cases of war. She leads the male generals and their armies to combat.
Why should this be a DM-position. In case we do make a raid/war against any surface city, the Valsharess suddenly becosme the leader for a certain amount of time. This would give a perfect position for a DM to have some control over the war without having to step in as a handmaiden (which would be unlikely, Lolth usually doesnt care tooo much) each and every time .

Please remember that even though the drow society is no democracy, this is a persistant world with players behind all characters, may they be low or high in rank. It is supposed to be fun for all of them. This is also why there are a few decision that might be not made by a few players but by DMs to give the drow society a little bit more structure and lead to less confusion for all.

A last note: The last Drow meeting was announced in the server news (when you log in) for about a week. Quite a few came but some decided to stay away. If the time is a big problem for you please feel free to contact DM Shadow next time and it might be moved around a bit.

@Labella
I'm interested to know where did you get from Drow lore that the ArchPriestess is the most powerful position of a drow city. Is it written in "Drow of the Underdark" ? I don't have those manuals and I read what is reported of it in this forum but there is no specifical mention about the Ulathtallar being the "first" position in a drow city. Sticking to Salvatore's books, in Menzoberranzan it is my impression that the dominant position is the one of Matron of the first house, since the first house is by far the most powerful and its Matron leads it; the Arch Priestess is generally one of the daughters of the Matron Mother of first House. Also, as a side note, even Sorcere has a seat for a female Seer aside of the Archmage.
In Menzoberranzan, there is none that would indicate if a house has Lolth's favor or not, this is simply evident from facts: those who win and are successful have the favor, those who lose don't. This is also reflected in a drow proverb: ""Lolth be praised; all victory is her doing". Priestesses also have dreams about Lolth, or they even speak with Her, but this regards any priestess, not just the Arch Priestess of Arach Tinilith, and two priestesses can claim the exact opposite about Lolth's favor
There is a post called "Station and Ranks" in the Drow Lore section that shows Matrons above Priestesse. Or were you referring to TFR Szith lore ?

ReapermanAUS wrote:

Talice was logging in still when there were not any drow in ud I think that accadamiy positions are for players as they always were the 2 times that a dm had the positions have been diisasters Vilm became dm and was rarely seen as uthtaller after that same went for The Melee Master who was a Dm bad Idea this .

I wonder how would anyone know that Talice was logging if none was around ? In the past 2 months I have seen Death Shard logged in once, the other day. Maybe you referred to Svener who would log in every now and then for literally 10 seconds. Even after being made Ulathtallar I haven't since seen Talice again.
I do have some concerns about a DM holding the position of Arch Priestess. DM Shadow is very active and runs events almost daily, be it a Yochlol of Lloth or a Ulathtallar doesn't make much difference as far as running events. The only problem I see with this, which we should discuss and address hopefully, is who will make new Priestesses and maybe classes at Arach Tinilith ? A DM can't be around enough to take care of these tasks.

@Ombra:

I am using german d&d books so not so sure about those names in english. I do have drow of the underdark but additionally I use 2 other german books (quite old drow lore books - would be translated something like "Lore of the Drow I & II") as they sometimes give more specific settings. I did read a couple of the salvatore books but I personally prefer to stick to the rule books since novels always get a fitting setting for their stories.

The Ulathtallar is not necessarily the first position, it just has a lot of power in the means that if there is no especially powerful drow house (like on tfr right now, they are more or less equal powerful) she has the influence enough to declare that someone lost/gained the favor or Lolth (now if that is true or not is relatively irrelevant if the the bigger part of the priestess hood is standing behind the Ulathtallar)

If the houses regain more of their strenght, it is most likely that they turn to more or less equal positions. Meaning neither the Ulathtallar nor the Ilharessen will 'boss' each other around. In case only one house will gain strenght (by a lot in comparison to now) it will not be only the first but also the ruling house and be superior to all houses (= Ilharessen) and the Ulathtallar.

Hope that was understandable, as I cant always correctly express on english what I wish to say.

Yeah,
and anyways I think that since we agreed (or at least it's my impression we agreed on this) that house wars aren't an option, seeing at past experiences, it's clear that the house that currently has the most favor from Lloth should be named by the Arch Priestess; although we also agreed on the fact that having the most favor is just roleplay flavor for prestige. But, we also agreed that this should be obviously ruled out by the DM in charge of the Drow/UD. At the same time I think that an Arch Priestess is needed as player because we need this character to be more "accesible" than a DM played one would be, in order to run classes and promote acolytes to Priestesses. That's why at the meeting I proposed the DM roleplays Lloth, or her envoyees like he is already doing (Yochlols/Hand Maidens). In fact, even if Shadow asked that the Ulathtallar be a DM position, he isn't roleplaying her and I don't think we can ask him to do it, that would take too much time from him. The Yochlols or Lloth would tell the Arch Priestess who has the most favor and she would in turn communicate this to the city. Or, we could set up things so that when Lloth gives such a communication, it will be at the temple with Arch Priestess and High Priestesses present. Just to give a little bit more "prestige" to the position of High Priestess compared to Priestess

So I think that it should not be a problem to organize this once all main positions in the 3 houses are covered, which seems to be very soon given the last comebacks. Maybe already at the next meeting next Sunday we'll be able to make this proposal to Shadow. What does everyone think ?

Can't say I am surprised... this is what happens when a DM who doesn't know drow lore steps in and tries to change things.

At least DM Shadow is trying very effective at rebuilding interest and fun for the UD, instead of driving DM's and players away from the server

Definitely - DM Shadow is making the UD interesting for many, and as far as i noticed quite a few enjoyed his on-going shard quest.

DM Shadow is putting a lot of effort into it...

the drow meeting prooves that.. maybe he doenst know much about drow lore but he is willing to learn...

so if you have points where you disagree with him (like i do sometimes) you have to tell him... so that he can know the different opinions and has the chance to react to that.

in a month of DMing from Shadow I've seen huge improvements under any aspect. Confidence with DM tools, Drow lore, quality of RP and stories. DM Shadow is a "newbie" of DMing but he's already doing a great job and improving constantly. Besides his request to first fill in house ranks before szith ranks makes a lot of sense and is in no way connected to the lore. His reasoning is that he wants to dabble less than possible with politics that should be player run. This sounds like a paradox, but it isn't considering all he asked was first to fill in house rankingsm, which are those that a DM should stay as far as possible. While we do this, he together with the staff HELPS US by covering the other roles. But once again, this is temporary.

Its ok Cat Shadow has me and raye and labbella if we dont know an answer about drow lore and szith drow lore in particular its not worth knowing.

I wana say thank you to all of you, I never claimed to know everything about drow lore I only knew that I stood by and watched as the drow ran about playing and filing into Szith and there was just very little for them to do. So I said what the hell lets give it a try, as for my knowledge, No I don't know everything but thanks to a few players like Labella, Reaper, and Rae whom I do ask things constantly I have been able to keep things at least close to how they should be.

Will I stop running things in the UD?
No of course not.

What do I think about this thread?
I think that the ones complaining are missing out on alot of fun and should try comming along and having some.

Absolute perfection is something that doesn't exist, and many times you will see me make mistakes here or there but all I ask is this, Should you call me to the carpet over some tiny mistake or just keep on RP'ing and have some fun?

I think we all know the answer to this and I can tell you all first hand that I have seen that you do, we have some tiny pauses now and again but the issue is always handled but all in all this is a game and we're here for fun, so I guess what i'm saying is if you can't put the rulebook down for more than a minute to have some fun than i'm sorry but your here for the wrong reasons because like I said this is a game.

Again Thank you all for sticking up for me I greatly appreciate it.

DM Shadow